with ELLEN SPIRO and PHIL DONAHUE (BODY OF WAR)

Iraq. Every day we read, hear and watch news about it. For more than four years it has been our reality and likely will be for many more. However, our "reality" and the reality of the men and women who have served are worlds apart. And for those who have returned after suffering extreme and debilitating injuries - well, words can't fully illustrate the harrowing nature of that "reality." Ellen Spiro's and Phil Donahue's documentary BODY OF WAR makes a connection between veteran Tomas Young's life and that of the people in Washington who voted to send him to the place and the war that nearly destroyed his body. Young's personality, his spirit, and his refusal to give in to the pain make each vote in favor of going to war - because let's face it, that's what it was - harder and harder to take. More than that, the opening of his own eyes as to why he's in the state he's in is the real news we should be seeing.

The phrase "put the gimps up front" crystallizes so much of Tomas Young's reality to bring attention to his cause since he has returned. How much of a surprise was the extent of that reality to you personally the longer you worked on the film?

Spiro: Tomas is full of surprises, and humor. Nothing is too precious for him, including his own body. "Putting the gimps up front" refers to the activist community who puts Tomas in front of the marches, the anti-war war hero and Tomas' total awareness of what is happening.

Donahue: "They put the gimps up front" says the "old" vet who has been in a wheelchair for 38 years. "They gotta have the visual!" he explains. An old gimp instructs a new gimp on just one of the million ways his life will change: He'll be in the front row and he's now a "visual." How much did Ron Kovic's story and Born on the Fourth of July influence the making of BODY OF WAR?

Spiro: It would be hard to ignore the parallels between the stories. There was no Ron Kovic of the Iraq War, until Tomas Young appeared on the scene.

Donahue: We aspire to be as successful as Coming Home.

What is the best thing about having your film at AFI FEST?

Spiro: Being in the epicenter of the movie industry with Tomas Young, Phil Donahue and our family and friends with our non-industry film that, as we are so often told, needs to be seen.

Donahue: I get to see a lot of movie stars. Application of a catheter/Vote for Authorization for the Iraq War - what's more difficult to watch?

Spiro: I think the vote is more difficult because it shows just how badly our country was duped and how easily our congress was led astray.

Donahue: The catheter scene is a wincer, to be sure - so should be every American's reaction to the chaotic result of this unprovoked invasion. Don't sanitize this war! A cab driver in the film states that we have "50 percent democracy" in our country. Where would you place the percentage?

Spiro: It is a funny and abstract question and depends on the day and the issue, but the Iraq War was certainly a turning point in the erosion of our democracy.

Donahue: A lot lower than it used to be. How did the directing dynamic work between you and Phil Donahue/ Ellen Spiro?

Spiro: Phil and I have very different sensibilities and they come together in the film. I am drawn to the intimate moments. Phil goes for the more dramatic ones.

Donahue: We're not speaking - at least until the swelling goes down in my jaw. Ellen and I met each other on a blind date. Although she recognized me when I called (thank God!) we really didn't know each other. Every pixel she brought to dailies was usable - all of it. And shot brilliantly. She's a very gifted young woman and I oughta know.

What recent documentaries have made an impact on you?

Spiro: Spike Lee's When the Levees Broke. I watched the entire series and saw the painful connection between the New Orleans fiasco and the Iraq fiasco and the lessons they both hold for the future.

Donahue: March of the Penguins

How many of us do you feel are "in charge of our day"?

Spiro: The potency of that moment in the film comes from the truth that no one really is in charge of their day, but most of us think we are.

Donahue: May I get back to you on this one? How many Pearl Jam CDs did you own before working on the film? And, after the film...?

Spiro: My nephew left his copy of "Vitalogy" in my car, and I listened to it on an unexpectedly long road trip in Texas. But now I own several Pearl Jam CDs and I can't wait for "No More," the compilation album of anti-war songs that Tomas Young is curating for Sire Records.

Donahue: None and six. (Hey, I'm 71 years old. "A one and a two a ...")

Popcorn or candy?

Spiro: Popcorn AND twizzlers.

Donahue: Good n' Plenty